To sign such a petition I would need a lot more info. I’m not sure, as I stated above, that this is not the proper decision. Being charged as an adult might provide for more money being spent to analyze her situation, past crimes if any, mental evaluations etc. which might ultimately provide more justice for all parties. A shorter or longer sentence would be neither good nor bad. It depends entirely on all the finest details of the case and in-depth mental evaluations. I appreciate your concern as an adoptee, but she may not be the exactly person you believe her to be.

Violent murder is a very severe crime, seldom committed by an innocent. If she serves her time in a mental institution for such a violent crime she will be segregated. In her case it would seem that only the sentence would be an adult equivalent, not the institution.

If she is adjudged as sane and tried as an adult, I think she might only spend 5 years in the prison system (second degree murder) for her crime, unless she has a prior history of crime. The DA might be doing this only to make a point. It might be a shorter sentence then if she were convicted as a juvenile, which would probably be a minimum of 7 years until she turns 21 with good behavior.

your friend forrest

Depending on the details of the crime and psychiatrist’s observations of Heather, if they believe that she could have been insane at the time of the crime, her lawyer may likely plead not guilty by reason of insanity and the DA will most likely go along with it if there are also Psychiatrist’s indications. With an adult commitment, she would serve the appropriate sentence in a mental institution, probably a juvenile facility. If they believe she had benefited from treatment she could be out in seven to 10 years. As a juvenile I don’t believe the sentence would be different. If they adjudge her as sane, she might only be facing a second degree murder charge unless they have evidence of premeditation. This might be only a 5 year sentence based upon all the crime circumstances, her prior history, and her behavior while incarcerated, again probably in a juvenile segregated facility.

I also see the possibility of a longer sentence in a mental institution if she were tried as a juvenile which of course might be a good thing for her as well as society if she has lingering indications of mental illness. In truth, if she continues to display symptoms of serious mental illness after an adult or juvenile commitment, she may never get out of a mental institution.

your friend forrest

Just a note:

There really are yougens in adult prisons here in the U.S.

A Google search for “minimum age in adult prisons” I found the following:

“Recent changes in some State laws have enabled more juveniles charged with serious, violent offenses to be transferred to adult courts. As a result, a larger number of youths are being sentenced as adults and incarcerated in adult prisons. These changes are affecting both juvenile detention facilities, where many youthful offenders await transfer to adult prisons, and the adult prisons as well, where administrators must find ways to incorporate this different population.”

All of the states have some means of transferring juveniles to adult criminal courts, and later if convicted, to adult prisons. The transfer is made either because of the nature of the crime, or at the discretion of the juvenile judge or a prosecutor.

“……. the minimum age for such transfers differs from state to state:

• It ranges from 10-years in Kansas and Vermont to 15-years in New Mexico — with 22 states and the District of Columbia stipulating no minimum age.
• Since 1992, 45 states have enacted laws making it easier to transfer juveniles to adult courts.
• That has led to a doubling of juveniles under 18 doing time in an adult facility since 1985.
• One in 10 of the 85,000 juveniles now incarcerated on any given day is serving a sentence in an adult prison (March 2000)”

Our girl above will possibly end up in a mental institution. Such a crime by a girl against her mother, at that age, suggests to me possible insanity at the time of the crime, granted with only cursory knowledge.

92 countries have signed treaties against juvenile incarceration (under 18) with adults with only two abstaining, the U.S. and U.S. Samoa.

Personally don’t perceive us as the bad guys, but we are seemingly out of step with the times and the rest of the world in this and other apparent ways.

your friend forrest

I think Forrest is correct that the purpose of trying an adolescent in adult courts is to permit a longer sentence. Juveniles convicted of crimes seldom serve after turning 21. So if a crime warrants a longer sentence they need to be tried in adult courts, though I don’t think they serve their sentence in adult prisons until they turn 21.

So the issue then is whether serious crimes committed by adolescents deserve long prison terms? For a deontologist, you should be convicted of a crime only if you are responsible for it. The data on impulse control suggests that, at least in some cases, adolescents are not fully responsible for their actions. But I would imagine impulse control is a highly context -sensitive capacity and it may be hard to sort out in particular cases whether a young person intended to commit the crime or not. This suggests that some discretion on the part of DA’s, hopefully informed by psychological data, is the right policy.

The data on impulse control also suggests that, for teenagers, rehabilitation is in many cases a real possibility. There is reason to think that as the brain matures, given proper treatment, they will be less likely to commit a similar crime. This would support a utilitarian approach–it would be best for everyone involved if the crimimal is rehabilitated and becomes a functioning member of society. But if this is the proper approach, we should never put people convicted of crimes in their adolescence in adult prisons since adult prisons are nothing but warehouses that incubate criminality.

I have never been able to make sense of the deontological view that rehabilitation is irrelevent. If a murder victim’s life is wasted, why is it better to waste two lives, if the criminal can be rehabilitated?

Of course, that just raises the question of whether we devote sufficient resources to rehabilitation. Given recidivism rates the answer is clearly no. That is just more evidence that we live in a culture of indifference.